Author Topic: Stalking.  (Read 24027 times)

sheclown

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Stalking.
« on: June 29, 2013, 05:46:24 PM »
Who stalks?

Why do they stalk?

What do they hope to accomplish?

What can a person do who is being stalked?

Anyone know about this? 


Charles Hunter

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2013, 06:32:01 PM »
Can you "out" him?

sheclown

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2013, 07:42:37 PM »
Fair enough.  General discussion it is.

iloveionia

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2013, 09:26:51 PM »
1) Unstable people.

2) They are unstable.

3) You can't rationalize an unstable mind so this question has no answer.

4) Here is the big question right. Unfortunately I believe it's very hard to get law enforcement involved prior to something tragic happening. Therefore I believe there are only two things one can do to successfully combat a true crazy stalker.  a) Arm your self with a small (so you can keep it with you at all times) firearm and get training on how to use it safely and properly  (b) get your friends, family and neighbors involved as much as possible so they are aware and can help protect the person being stalked. Unfortunately there's not much more to do and a true crazy stalker is no joke and not to be taken lightly.

Good assessment.  Here is some more information. 

Stalking is one of the behaviors of a sociopath.  A sociopath (studies show 1 in 25 people are) lacks a conscience.  That seventh sense the rest of us have, a sociopath lacks completely. No feelings of guilt or remorse.  Sociopaths have a greater need for stimulus than normal and take frequent social, physical, financial and/or legal risks.  They are charming, they are manipulating.  They are especially noted for their shallowness of emotion where their hollow nature of affectionate feelings are callous.  They have no trace of empathy, and no genuine interest in bonding emotionally with at mate. They have no emotional attachments to other people.  Their life and their jobs are camouflages for who they really are. They seek psychological prey.  They can not love and see everything in their life as a game, a game they must win. Victims are merely pawns and knights in a chess game. A sociopath has spent his/her life getting better at the game.  Life is reduced to a contest, and other human beings seem to be nothing more than game pieces, to be moved about, used as shields, or ejected. 

Robert Hare, professor of psychology at the University of British Columbia writes: "Everyone, including the experts, can be taken in, manipulated, conned, and left bewildered by them.  A good psychopath can play a concerto on anyone's heartstrings. . .Your best defense is the understand the nature of these human predators." 

Sociopaths are dangerous and remarkably difficult to identify.  Conscience cherishes humanistic ideas more than laws.  Sociopaths lack this.  What a sociopath wants, controlling others - - winning - - is more compelling than anything (or anyone) else.  Most sociopaths are invisible.  They are rarely prosecuted and are not the folks incarcerated.  They are here in the world with you and me. 

(Quoted and summarized from "the sociopath next door" by marth stout, ph.d.)


sheclown

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2013, 09:43:17 PM »
How long do stalker stalk?  Is there an average stalker?

iloveionia

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2013, 09:52:22 PM »
From the book again (the sociopath next door, by martha stout ph.d.)

What can the conscience-bound do about the guiltless?

1.  Accept that some people literally have no conscience.
2.  Go with your instincts
3.  When considering a new relationship of any kind, practice the Rules of Threes* regarding the claims and promises a person makes, and the responsibilities he or she has.  Make the Rule of Threes your personal policy.
4.  Question authority.
5.  Suspect flattery.
6.  If necessary, redefine your concept of respect.
7.  Do not join the game.
8.  The best way to protect yourself from a sociopath is to avoid him/her.
9.  Question your tendency to pity too easily.
10.  Do not try to redeem the unredeemable.
11.  Never agree, out of pity or for any other reason, to help a sociopath conceal his or her true character.
12.  Defend your psyche.
13.  Living well is the best revenge. 

*One lie, one broken promise, or a single neglected responsibility may be a misunderstanding instead.  Two may involve a serious mistake.  But three lies say you are dealing with a liar and deceit is the linchpin of a conscienceless behavior.   

Stephen's experience (certainly the first one he wrote about above) and the ones we see on the 6 o'clock news are what we understand sociopathy to be.  I speak only of the "one next door."  The wolf in sheep's clothing.  That's what this book is about and where my knowledge lies in study. 


sheclown

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2013, 09:52:57 PM »
What a terrible  experience for you. How did you cope?

iloveionia

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2013, 10:05:37 PM »
You, Stephen, are one remarkable survivor. I admire your strong personal character.


sheclown

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2013, 08:15:53 AM »
The first stalking legislation was enacted in California in 1990. 

The problem is that, individually, the stalking behavior is not necessarily illegal. It is not illegal to text, or to call. It is not illegal to send packages. 

Not illegal to set up appointments for their victims at random places.  Take out ads in the newspaper.

The day in and day out contact is what he thrives on, and it is the accumulated series of behaviors, taken as a whole, which constitutes the stalking.

It is tough stuff to deal with.

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« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 09:18:01 AM by sheclown »

JayBird

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2013, 09:59:27 AM »
The first stalking legislation was enacted in California in 1990. 

The problem is that, individually, the stalking behavior is not necessarily illegal. It is not illegal to text, or to call. It is not illegal to send packages. 

Not illegal to set up appointments for their victims at random places.  Take out ads in the newspaper.

The day in and day out contact is what he thrives on, and it is the accumulated series of behaviors, taken as a whole, which constitutes the stalking.

It is tough stuff to deal with.

Actually it IS against the law, even in Duval County.  For those that post often have probably heard me discuss my "Voluntold" job with a Springfield-based not-for-profit and I have had to deal with this on several occasions.  Unfortunately, in the process of rehabilitating those whom have gone adrift of the law in the past are often used to such a lifestyle and are unsure how to stop.  After being "involuntarily separated" from exes and families and friends for a period of years, many form an attachment to the "idea" of a person that they once knew.  An interesting phenomenon is that when most return to society, they pick up right where they left off, even though the rest of the world continued growing and living.  Obviously, this results in action be required of law enforcement because our promise to the men is to help them transition back into society as a productive member who can contribute something back to their neighbors. Our promise to families and the community in general is to keep them safe from the "manipulations" that was their last life.

Specifically in Duval County, there is a way to stop this. But it takes work, and here is why.  When you dial 630-0500 and a deputy responds to take a report, the majority of the time it is unfounded and the police are being used as a pawn between two feuding people.  Secondly, those where reports are filed and followed through to the States Attorneys office must at some point go in front of a judge and the victim can be intimidated by this.  After all, that is what the manipulator wants, recognition and face time.  But remember, the officer that took has to be there.  That means they came off duty or from their time off to the courtroom to stand alongside the victim.  When one doesn't show, that makes them less inclined to file a report the next time.

Here are the key things that would help put a stop to stalking before someone has to call 911 and ask for an ambulance and a cop car:

1.) Do NOT respond to them or engage in any way, once you do that is considered to be "engaging the conversation" and the only response the first year law student defending the stalker needs to give was that the victim "elicited a response".
2.) The one exception to the above, one text (preferably) or recorded phone call that has the victim saying "Please do not contact any more".  That is it, you have to be careful to not make a threat because this insinuates an ongoing feud.
3.) Once you have proof of harassment via texts or recorded phone calls (any packages from person should be sent back unopened) than you can call 630-0500 (JSO Non-emergency) or go to the clerk of courts and file a civil complaint.  I have included the statute below that the victim should cite when filing their complaint.
4.) Not another point, but an addition to #3, if you are receiving packages I did have one client whom had an ex wife that he would send stuff to in St Johns County.  She knew it was him, but because he didn't put his name on the package she had a "suspicious" package on her step and called 911.  This brought deputies, the county bomb squad and the ATF unit out of Jacksonville.  The package was deemed to have been a teddy bear (not threatening in any way) but after she explained the scenario, they promptly (with the assistance of JSO) showed up at our Boulevard residence and arrested the man.  I would not suggest this, but it was effective. Two days later the charges were dropped and he has not tried anything since. 
5.) Filing that complaint is important because once they are served, ANY contact (this includes driving by residence unless no other route is available) is an immediate cause for arrest. 

Now, you have to fight.  The victim in these incidents has to be strong and persistent.  The easiest way is probably to associate today's stalking laws with domestic violence of the early 80's, they exist but if you want them enforced, you'll have to make the officers do their job.

Here is the statute:
Quote
784.048 Stalking; definitions; penalties.—
(1) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Harass” means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that person and serves no legitimate purpose.
(b) “Course of conduct” means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, which evidences a continuity of purpose. The term does not include constitutionally protected activity such as picketing or other organized protests.
(c) “Credible threat” means a verbal or nonverbal threat, or a combination of the two, including threats delivered by electronic communication or implied by a pattern of conduct, which places the person who is the target of the threat in reasonable fear for his or her safety or the safety of his or her family members or individuals closely associated with the person, and which is made with the apparent ability to carry out the threat to cause such harm. It is not necessary to prove that the person making the threat had the intent to actually carry out the threat. The present incarceration of the person making the threat is not a bar to prosecution under this section.
(d) “Cyberstalk” means to engage in a course of conduct to communicate, or to cause to be communicated, words, images, or language by or through the use of electronic mail or electronic communication, directed at a specific person, causing substantial emotional distress to that person and serving no legitimate purpose.
(2) A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(3) A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person and makes a credible threat to that person commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(4) A person who, after an injunction for protection against repeat violence, sexual violence, or dating violence pursuant to s. 784.046, or an injunction for protection against domestic violence pursuant to s. 741.30, or after any other court-imposed prohibition of conduct toward the subject person or that person’s property, knowingly, willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(5) A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks a child under 16 years of age commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(6) A law enforcement officer may arrest, without a warrant, any person that he or she has probable cause to believe has violated this section.
(7) A person who, after having been sentenced for a violation of s. 794.011, s. 800.04, or s. 847.0135(5) and prohibited from contacting the victim of the offense under s. 921.244, willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks the victim commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(8.) The punishment imposed under this section shall run consecutive to any former sentence imposed for a conviction for any offense under s. 794.011, s. 800.04, or s. 847.0135(5).
(9)(a) The sentencing court shall consider, as a part of any sentence, issuing an order restraining the defendant from any contact with the victim, which may be valid for up to 10 years, as determined by the court. It is the intent of the Legislature that the length of any such order be based upon the seriousness of the facts before the court, the probability of future violations by the perpetrator, and the safety of the victim and his or her family members or individuals closely associated with the victim.
(b) The order may be issued by the court even if the defendant is sentenced to a state prison or a county jail or even if the imposition of the sentence is suspended and the defendant is placed on probation.
History.—s. 1, ch. 92-208; s. 29, ch. 94-134; s. 29, ch. 94-135; s. 2, ch. 97-27; s. 23, ch. 2002-55; s. 1, ch. 2003-23; s. 3, ch. 2004-17; s. 3, ch. 2004-256; s. 17, ch. 2008-172; s. 2, ch. 2012-153.

There are also several agencies in Jacksonville that can provide assistance

Go to the new courthouse, room 2409 and speak with a harassment counselor.  This is the Domestic Violence unit, however they can supply you with the necessary information.

Jax Legal Aid on Adams Street can also provide assistance when it comes to filing for a restraining order.


On a personal note, it is not easy.  I have had to work with JSO deputies on six of these cases over the past four years and it is a process in which the squeaky wheel gets the oil.  Also, it is much easier to file these charges against someone whose had run-ins with the law in the law in the past versus someone who appears to be an upright citizen.  The most important thing is to have a record of harrassment.  Journals where the victim recount everything that occurs will work, but texts/emails/recorded phone calls and pictures of packages that were sent back are so much better.  Courts are visual, the more they can look at the better they will react.

As for recorded phone calls, voice mail messages are admissible for obtaining restraining orders.  Actual phone calls must be told that they are being recorded.  Everything AFTER that statement is admissible.  But I would strongly advise to never engage in a phone call.


Hope this was helpful in whatever situation caused you to post.  As always, if you know someone being stalked or harassed please encourage them to report, until they are on the police radar they can get away with anything and may end up hurting someone else.  In the case of Stephen, you can see what happens when it goes too far.  Thankfully his stalker chose to take it out on themselves, however this is almost split perfectly 50/50 between those whom harm themselves and those whom attack the object of their obsession.  Unfortunately, there is no way to tell which one they'll do until they do it ... And JSO's response times aren't good enough to provide me with comfort in that scenario. And the only reason we have the laws we do today is because people like Stephen had the courage to stand up and take a stand.

Jason Bird, Sr. Case Mgr.
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jebird@ymail.com
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sheclown

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2013, 11:50:07 AM »
What a horrid experience.

It does bring up my next question.  Stalkers are serial, are they not?  They move from one person to another?  Do they usually start during adolescence?  And stalk till they're dead?

It seems as if the compulsion to stalk is much like other compulsive behaviors that don't just stop.

JayBird

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2013, 12:46:53 PM »
What a horrid experience.

It does bring up my next question.  Stalkers are serial, are they not?  They move from one person to another?  Do they usually start during adolescence?  And stalk till they're dead?

It seems as if the compulsion to stalk is much like other compulsive behaviors that don't just stop.

I'm in agreement with Stephen here.  Psychology taught me that stalkers are not serial, that they have this attraction to one person and it manifests itself and can never be cured.  All that can be done is to teach them how to control those impulses. The ones that stop still have the obsession it is just that the consequences are worse than the need to obsess.  However, practical life experience has taught me that may be untrue.  More apt would be the person who quits smoking and replaces with food.  So when they stop stalking one, they focus on another or another outlet.  Remember the mind is obsessing over them is actually a sexual attraction.  The same way one can watch a pornographic video and get turned on, it is the same for the stalker every time they learn a new thing about their "object".  Most of time, real world obstacles keep it from growing.  They have to work, they have to eat, they have to socialize with others and all this adds up to time they cannot stalk.  The ones who build their life around the victim though, these are the ones to be wary of. 

And yes Stephen it is definitely much harder to assess these charges against someone who has a logical reason for interacting with you.  These ones are usually caught because the others they talk to, they give the impression of a great friendship or romantic relationship exists.  And when their fantasy world and reality collide, one will inevitably implode.  Hopefully it is their fantasy and not the victims reality.
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sheclown

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2013, 12:57:50 PM »
In the situation that I am aware of, the man targets lonely married women.  Gets them into a compromising position.  Records it.  Blackmails them.  Then begins the real torture of emasculating the husband.  The husband finds himself having to deal with the realities of the incident, but this is nothing compared to the ongoing impotence of in-your-face taunting, day in and day out.  In this case for almost a year.

And I've heard rumors that this situation was not the first time this happened --

 

sheclown

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2013, 01:15:24 PM »
In the situation that I am aware of, the man targets lonely married women.  Gets them into a compromising position.  Records it.  Blackmails them.  Then begins the real torture of emasculating the husband.  The husband finds himself having to deal with the realities of the incident, but this is nothing compared to the ongoing impotence of in-your-face taunting, day in and day out.  In this case for almost a year.

And I've heard rumors that this situation was not the first time this happened --

Its also true of the more serious ones that they are surrounded by enablers.  People who have never seen this side to their personality (or perhaps refuse to see it) and who validate them in their every day lives.

With my more serious stalker, he was validated and supported by his parents until the horrific end of his life.  Even in death they painted a portrait of their son as they wished him to be rather than as he was.

The stalker usually has developed an airtight narrative to explain the stalking to their enablers that makes sense.  They then bully and blackmail the victim to establish the kinds of limits on the victim that the stalker will not recognize in their own life.

In my case, the blackmail and slander usually came out of being bisexual.  There would be long stories, with details that were truthful but the main story would be gruesome and alarming and untrue.  But the little details would check out and so the larger lie had the quality of being believable.

My fathers family was very buttoned down, upperclass and largely Baptist.  It was extremely upsetting and humiliating for them to get phone calls about my relationships with other guys.  The details were usually salacious, portraying me as a classical homosexual predator and usually involved illegal drugs, potential satan worship and the like.

When discussing the girl that he raped, tortured, tormented and stalked for all those years, she was always made to look like a malicious whore who had initiated all of the encounters and who was physically and emotionally abusing their child.  The stories were airtight as long as the person hearing his version never spoke with his victims.

And that was the uncrossable boundaries for all of my stalker.  You simply were not allowed into their own circle of trusts in a manner which they could not personally control. Their enabling nests were to be protected at all costs.  Hence the blackmail, the retribution the escalations.

Its the one thing that I think most stalkers have in common.

Ah, so they have a weakness after all?

sheclown

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Re: Stalking.
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2013, 01:26:54 PM »
And by universal awareness you mean letting people know what is going on?